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Smith Brandy 03/28/2012 7:40:00 PM
I am currently enrolled in NAU online campus in Rapid City SD. I live in Idaho and am a single mom trying to navigate my way to a better life. I thought that the medical billing and coding degree would help. But I am now having trouble getting the remaining money from my student loans. I need this money to help me while going to school.They say its pending. What recoarse if any do I have?I wish I had rread your article before enrolling.
Brandy Smith
smith.brandy58@yahoo.com
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03/23/2012 10:34:00 AM
Federal loan modification requirements, mortgage modification is used to fix a much different scenario than refinancing. Loan modifications are now not available to those who are not going through a period of financial hardship, meaning their debt to income ratio is less than favorable.
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Timgrius 11/21/2011 4:14:00 AM
Interesting. Most of the bashing that I'm reading is coming from ex-employees or people who are taking this poorly researched article as gospel. Think there might be some motivation behind that?
The Chronicle of Higher Education publishes a yearly almanac, and in the 2011 edition, they noted that non-profit universities spend about 17 percent of their revenue on student services. For-profits spent more than 70 percent of their revenue on student services.
At the end of the day, for-profit universities care about the money they make because they are a business. How odd is it, though, that if they cared so little about the students, then why are they spending so much on them?
It seems that the illusion that education should be free and that somehow the idea of charging money for such an invaluable, immeasurable product such as education is reprehensible to some may be motivation for the recent attacks on the for-profits. Or it could be that they are easy targets. What could be worse than taking taxpayer money when the country is in the midst of such a deep recession?
I think I know the answer: making it more difficult for those whom schools like NAU serve to get an education.
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FormerNAUSucker 10/26/2011 6:33:00 PM
Having been in charge of a program at NAU, I know exactly where students are coming from and how disgruntled they are. I was asked to keep on enrolling a student in classes who clearly had a developmental disability. I refused and decided that it was against my moral and ethical values to continue doing so. I also worked for several people in administration who had no qualms with pushing us to be dishonest with students AND on top of it expecting us to down play academic rigor to pass students who should have NEVER been passed. This is happening while they go on their fancy trips and some hardly show up for work because they do not have to in order to get paid. Instead, it is up to the "academic" staff to act as admissions, counselors, and to try to get the students to stay when they become disillusioned about what getting a degree entails. This has been taken to the uttermost extreme that recently, staff members were fired because they were not making enough outbound calls to students! Last time I checked, it is the responsibility of the ADMISSIONS team to sell the college. But the big question is how do you retain a student who realizes that all he or she was ever told were lies?
Recently many of the academic staff and team have either left or been fired because in an effort to increase academic rigor and integrity the guidelines that were set were not found to be acceptable. In other words, there were students as in any university that were not going to pass certain classes, but instructors were basically forced to pass students who might injure or hurt someone in their chosen field. And I have to say that their career services and placement department is a joke. They expect one person to do the job of seven or more, but they keep on hiring admissions reps and throwing money at them to keep on bringing in students. What about spending some money to refine your best practices, retain the students you do have, promote your "quality" (not so much anymore) programs, AND pay your staff what they deserve so that people are content and willing to work because of the desire to work, not the fear of being fired? No matter what anyone say, Campus Directors and Regional people, including admissions, DO get annual bonuses based on how many people they bring into the school in any given quarter. And quit keeping faculty who have no clue what it means to teach, but rather collect a paycheck when they aren't doing a darn thing to improve academic rigor. This includes people who have been hired in leadership roles, who in the REAL world would be the laughing stock of a company for how they behave and present themselves publicly.
The question remains: Have they no shame for what unethical business practices have been brought to light? Evidently not, because they will stay open at the expense of students who will leave and sometimes without a degree, heavily in debt, with no job prospects and faculty and staff who are increasingly becoming fed up with their unethical and shady business practices. Many of us got smart and chose to leave for other jobs (and better paying one) because we recognized that the bottom is close to falling out for NAU. Oh and for all of you who said that the shills on here were from NAU, you were absolutely right. When this article came out, we were all forced to listen to the "think speak" coming from the mouths of the NAU Executives as they tried to cover their butts with this. Not only was it pathetic to watch but it was downright embarrassing and disgusting to see grown adults so blatantly lie to our faces about what was said. Especially when many of us have seen what was described in action. The best decision I ever made was to leave NAU before I was lumped into the category of those who are only there for the money! If you ever question how much people like Dr. Ron Shape, Michaelle Holland, and Christine Town make, just take a look at their financial records and see. Since NAU is now publically traded, they have to disclose those salaries. As a person who worked for NAU and was paid peanuts to do the job of 4 people, it certainly explains a lot when admissions representations are making more than full time faculty and programming staff.
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Jjs8ig 09/15/2011 5:26:00 AM
I had a full ride to Mizzou when I graduated in 2005 but chose instead to join the marine corps because I wasn't ready to do four more years. I enrolled at NAU 3 years ago and my experience has been 50/50. I deployed and was told I would be withdrawn from my classes. Upon returning I noticed I had been given F's instead. When I approached them, their response was "it's past the grade dispute period so there is nothing we can do". After I spoke to the VA and better business bureau they finally said they would correct it. Almost two years later and it's still not corrected. Every time I confront them, they act like it's the first time they're hearing about it. Bottom line is they want me to pay to take the classes again. Besides that, the classes are way to easy, I haven't learned anything, and I'm getting farther in debt by the day. I really do NOT want a diploma from this place, but it doesn't seem like I have much of a choice since I'm about done. My main concern is being able to get a decent job after graduation. If anyone knows of any statistics regarding hire rates for business majors, I would love to know.
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Epking 08/30/2011 4:06:00 AM
My nephew and his wife are both developmentally delayed adults and they were just enrolled in the criminal justice class at NAU. They've failed at three other for-profit schools and now have student loans for the few weeks that they were in school. How can this happen????????
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Snapfish 07/13/2011 11:11:00 PM
The research compiled to write this article was well done. Students need to do their research before committing to thousands of dollars
Thanks for such a well written article and the education.
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notimpressed 02/22/2011 5:42:00 AM
What a reputable website. As I am reading the article there is an advertisement for winning a free vaperizor. Aren't those just used to smoke weed. Wow I can trust anything this paper writes. Do the writers get complimentary vaperizors to use before they do the research. What a joke.
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Jgrs 02/05/2011 10:12:00 PM
I was an administrator at NAU for 10 years. At first, it was exciting, since I transitioned from the public setting which was wroth with red-tape. I found NAU to be refreshing in that you could get things done easily; as long as it produced results…money is definitely the motivating factor!
Truth be told, there are a lot of skeletons in this institutions closet. Perhaps too many to summarize here. For example,
+ Faculty are pressured to pas students that can’t perform.
+ the university president has served on the Higher Learning Commissions Institutional Review Board for a number of years, and so gets preferential treatment when it comes to accreditation.
+ they had a Director of Assessment who claimed to hold a doctorate degree, but it was found that it came from a diploma mill.
+ the son of the owner got his MBA from the university, with many faculty pressured to pass him.
+ the daughter of the owner taught accounting for years, but didn’t have a master’s degree in the field.
+ they enroll students in impoverished nations, such as Bangladesh and Bolivia, and take their local credits without validation, and “top up” the degrees at a reduced rate. That means that someone in India could get an NAU degree without ever setting foot on a campus, and at a portion of the tuition and fees charged to a American student.
+ you can “self-certify” that you have earned a GED or HS diploma to receive financial aid.
This place is in it to get your money! Pay the fee and get the B.
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Afka4tk 02/05/2011 9:54:00 PM
This place should be shut down!
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belstaff bag 556 12/13/2010 12:39:00 PM
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Thanks for sharing your article. I really enjoyed it.
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Joe 12/01/2010 12:03:00 AM
Nick first of I would like to ask. Isn't Harvard a for-profit school. I was in class again with Ms Leef and she got thrown out of class for being drunk. What a responsible source for an article. To: When in Doubt, Don't you think that every college that has a football team that is on TV every weekend is advertising their school. Community colleges advertise on TV and tax payer money subsidise community colleges wheteher they have full classes or not.
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TO: Missy 11/30/2010 12:15:00 AM
Missy,
Thanks goodness you are not an instructor any longer. Your grammar is awful.
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Philip Theibert 11/28/2010 9:05:00 PM
Here is the true story about colleges like National American and Minnesota School of Business:
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/48176/career_colleges_put_profit_before_education.html?cat=4
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Missy 11/27/2010 4:50:00 AM
I worked as an instructor at NAU for several years, and I can attest to noting many of the problems and abuses mentioned here. I wouls sometime have students complain that they had not gotten the book for class or the proper materials because the school was holding on to their loan money - which the sudent - NOT the school - woul one day have to pay back! The way these for-profit institutions treat students as well as faculty is downright unethical. Rarely do they hire full-time faculty(meaning they do not have to pay benefits to anyone), the pay rate is much, much less than public as well as private institutions, and the faculty are not given any more support from the administration than the students are! I really wish the goverment would outlaw these types of schools, or at least not allow federal dollars to be funneled through them!
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Tim Lundstrom 11/26/2010 2:20:00 AM
I have mixed feeling about these private colleges because I have heard both good and bad stories about many of these schools. I personally would have to do extensive research before enrolling at one of these colleges. That is the mistake that many fail to do. However, what does one do if you attend a state 2 or 4 year college and they fail to follow through on certain responsibilities or are mismanaged? I had a problem with a 2-year state college and I was told by the Minnesota Attorney General's Office that they do not investigate other state institutions, only private organizations or individuals. I also found that the MnSCU which is suppose to provide some support to students prefers to help protect and provide cover for state colleges. Sort of like the fox guarding the chickens! Bottom line is that all schools and colleges can screw the student after one has already spent not just large sums of money, but time and effort as well. I attended Rochester Community and Technical College and I never imagined in my wildest dreams that I would end up having what turned out to be an endless nightmare with such a disfunctional, arrogent and poorly managed college and a "certain" program/department there! I had a certain career planned for myself as a working adult and spent the money, time, effort and time off from work and travel expenses for nothing!
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Steve 11/26/2010 1:12:00 AM
Excellent point that wasn't mentioned in the article or others on the comment page, kw. If you attempt to transfer credits from one of these glorified juve halls you will be laughed at. I attended the prestigious (HA!) Le Cordon Bleu College of Culinary Arts (Read: Brown College), and experienced the same hard sell designed to get as many asses into as many seats as possible, and bought the whole speil hook, line, and sinker. I busted my ass and graduated at the top of my class (which wasn't really that difficult since the classes were embarassingly dumbed down to keep asses in seats and the student loan dollars rolling in. I then spent 3 months working for free at La Belle Vie. "Externship", it was called. Three years later I'm employed in the restaurant industry...for starvation wages. When employers see Le Cordon Bleu on a resume, they often snicker and chuck it in the trash. The bottom line is; it's just Brown College, who licenses the name Le Cordon Blue from the frogs.
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funny 11/24/2010 3:54:00 AM
I would definitely believe an article that was written by city pages who advertises exotic massages, etc...
The fact that people have had bad experiences doesn't speak for everyone. I know a ton of students that have went to public state schools and have dropped out, and are now in default.
Go ahead and google any college with "reviews" behind it.... 9/10 are going to be bad reviews. Without for-profit non-traditional colleges, working adults wouldn't be able to go to class 5 days per week at a state university. I strongly believe this article is:
1. Poorly written
2. Incorrect
3. A sad attack on a university who... is not in a shopping mall anymore, and has not been since 2000.
I hope you are all not this naive. I do not work for NAU nor am I a student, but I am disgusted by the thrashing that this disgrace for an article has thrown out there.
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Steve 11/24/2010 3:31:00 AM
I think the problem with this article (and the resulting comments) revolves around the way in which it is written. It seems to be a 2-page diatribe about one college, then launches into an indictment of private schools in general citing tactics and statistics that may not be germane to the school being highlighted. In other words, I am sure that around the Country there are plenty of bad schools, but no where in the article (other than one student's anecdote) does the author support his claim that National American is one of them. Whether you're a fan of these schools or not, the bottom line here is that for some reason the author has singled out a school that (in his own published statistics) isn't even close to the worst offender. I took five minutes to look up his source for student loan default rates. What I found was that, of the top 50 schools in MN for default rates, 31 of them were public institutions. This is obviously apparent and conspicuously absent from the article that it begs the question... if National American is not at the top of the list for default rates, why focus on this school. It just seems like he has a bone to pick.
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NAUstudent2 11/24/2010 1:30:00 AM
I myself attend NAU and am counting the days until I am finished. The school is a joke. I have been at NAU for almost 3 years and have only had maybe 3 teachers who actually taught me something. I'm very close to finishing my associates degree and then will gladly leave NAU for a different school to continue my education. It pisses me off that they let ANYONE into this school. Don't get me started on how I get harassed if I do not register for classes. I was once told by the former dean "what you didn't get your way so you're just going to quit" when I chose to take a quarter off when the classes I wanted (that I pay for) weren't offered. While I do not agree that people should get loans to live off of, if it's an option out there to each their own. I personally hate admitting to people where I go to school. I also agree with Charles Woodley, the ebooks are horrible. Great article Nick.
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Caitlin 11/23/2010 9:42:00 AM
Using anecdotal and, by most accounts, exceptional positive experiences at these universities as a way to attack the obviously in-depth research this reporter did is not productive. Sure, some people went on to reasonably successful careers using their for-profit education as a foundation, but the hard statistics (that have been widely publicized--and mirrored-- in congressional hearings and on NPR/NYtimes, etc) suggest that this is not the common experience for students matriculating from these institutions--and that, despite the students' protests, these places are often doing them/their peers a great disservice.
This reporter has clearly done his homework and has taken a thoughtful and nuanced approach to conducting his interviews and research. Attacking him based on his background is childish and reflects more on the critics' insecurities than on any legitimate problems with his reporting. To those who think his job producing important investigative pieces about this community is somehow not commensurate with his education should try getting a job in the ever-dwindling media world.
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NAU Student 11/23/2010 4:44:00 AM
First of all Joe, you are incorrect. NAU does in fact get the loan money, then disburses it to the student whenever they please. They act like it is them that has to pay the money back. So Joe, get your facts straight. I am a student here at NAU, and experienced the same things Diane is talking about. I applaud the reporter for "calling NAU out". Maybe they'll change their ways, but honestly that is not likely. I certainly wish I had researched more before I began going here...
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Nick 11/23/2010 1:05:00 AM
I went to Brown College, they lied to me and us before, and during our enrollment. Placement rate 90% or more, my ass, I know of 1 person in a class of around 20 that works in the industry.
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Laura 11/22/2010 5:28:00 PM
These are important issues, but the effects of this type of behavior reach much deeper. Education is too precious to be treated this way. See my November 12th essay about the "bad apple" for-profits at MinnPost at http://bit.ly/cixohd
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WMC 11/21/2010 8:14:00 PM
I have a sneaky feeling that many comments here are from admissions staff at these for-profit institutions pretending to be other people in an attempt to mitigate some pretty bad PR. After all, these shills have a brand name to protect! Many comments sound like talking points distributed to a group of people. This is what is known as astroturfing through sockpuppetting. Pinto has actual sources, these commenters don't. That right there should spark some red flags to other readers.
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Mike M. 11/21/2010 6:44:00 PM
So many things wrong with this article: Nick Pinko never tells us where he met Diane Leef. His fishing expedition for a dissatisfied customer only serves as a backdrop to rail on another evil profit-seeking company. Tell me Nick, did you get paid (profit) for writing this article? I didn't know City Pages was a non-profit heavily involved in charitable donations. Where do their profits go? One might wonder if advertising sexual favors, strip clubs, and all-night raves would be considered charitable? One request: In your next default graph could you use more than three comparison schools. It seems a little weighted towards three 'for-profit' schools (one-of-which is completely specialized) and one State University. Using four Rasmussen (which you spelled wrong by the way) campuses, whose default rates fall within the margin of error, and one over-priced barn where the 50,000 sheep are herded through at an average tuition hike of 4.5% per year. Perhaps a few more state schools who undoubtedly take state and federal funds to keep their administrations in the black.
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liam 11/21/2010 8:40:00 AM
Any school that is housed in a shopping mall should tell you all you need to know..The name of the school is completely contrived and laughable..And the fake laughter & classroom bonding shown in those tiresome commercials is super cheesy..It's targeted & dumbed down to the daytime couch dwellers without a life..
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jeff 11/20/2010 10:42:00 AM
Bandon, Do me a favor and cut and paste your comment into Word and tell me how many Grammar mistakes in that simple little sentence. I found 3. So maybe you should go to NAU and take an English class before speaking.
Marsbars, We don’t doubt the fact that the editor can cut and paste some blanket statement that he found on the internet. Hell even I could do that. It’s the fact that he took the statement from 1 student out of thousands that have passed through the doors of For-Profit schools. I am sure the positive people out way the negative. You can please all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time.
What nobody has said is that the Non-profit schools can’t handle all of the students that apply for their schools. They weed out only the cream of the crops and turn down the less desirable. So with this said where are those people suppose to go to further their education. EVERYONE has the right to education. Why is it so bad that the for-profits have a higher dropout rate and default rate than the non-profits They give everyone a chance at an education. If it were the other way around would everyone want to close down the U of M. Don’t classify all of the non-profits the same. They aren’t perfect but what business is.
What about public education. How much money is wasted every year on kids that don’t graduate and teachers that don’t care. Non-profit state schools also spend a lot of money on retirement and medical insurance for the life of the retirees. How many private companies in the US can provide that these days.
As in most cases the disgruntled students are the same ones that didn’t take responsibility for their actions and didn’t pay in high school. Society is becoming a Walmart mentality society that if they don’t like something they can get their money back without any responsibility for doing their research and thinking about what they are doing. People need to stand up and take responsibility for their actions. Stop blaming everyone else.
There are a lot more companies getting rich off of the tax payers than schools. Hell anyone that has a credit card is paying high interest so they can pay for all of the people that default on their payments. Most of the money that the credit card companies make doesn't even stay in this country. The amount you pay on interest is more than the taxes you pay to educate people.
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Jeff 11/20/2010 10:40:00 AM
Bandon, Do me a favor and cut and paste your comment into Word and tell me how many Grammar mistakes in that simple little sentence. I found 3. So maybe you should go to NAU and take an English class before speaking.
Marsbars, We don’t doubt the fact that the editor can cut and paste some blanket statement that he found on the internet. Hell even I could do that. It’s the fact that he took the statement from 1 student out of thousands that have passed through the doors of For-Profit schools. I am sure the positive people out way the negative. You can please all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time.
What nobody has said is that the Non-profit schools can’t handle all of the students that apply for their schools. They weed out only the cream of the crops and turn down the less desirable. So with this said where are those people suppose to go to further their education. EVERYONE has the right to education. Why is it so bad that the for-profits have a higher dropout rate and default rate than the non-profits They give everyone a chance at an education. If it were the other way around would everyone want to close down the U of M. Don’t classify all of the non-profits the same. They aren’t perfect but what business is.
What about public education. How much money is wasted every year on kids that don’t graduate and teachers that don’t care. Non-profit state schools also spend a lot of money on retirement and medical insurance for the life of the retirees. How many private companies in the US can provide that these days.
As in most cases the disgruntled students are the same ones that didn’t take responsibility for their actions and didn’t pay in high school. Society is becoming a Walmart mentality society that if they don’t like something they can get their money back without any responsibility for doing their research and thinking about what they are doing. People need to stand up and take responsibility for their actions. Stop blaming everyone else.
There are a lot more companies getting rich off of the tax payers than schools. Hell anyone that has a credit card is paying high interest so they can pay for all of the people that default on their payments. Most of the money that the credit card companies make doesn't even stay in this country. The amount you pay on interest is more than the taxes you pay to educate people.
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Katherine 11/20/2010 4:44:00 AM
I used to be an admissions rep for NAU, and fully understand where Leef is coming from. We were not to focus on helping our students that were already enrolled. It was all about brining in new students. I have a masters degree in management. NAU teaches the correct way to do business in the classrooms, but does not practice it as an organization.
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disgusted 11/19/2010 11:46:00 PM
Wow, this was actually fun to read. I've known about NAU for almost 10 years now and as a student I couldn't be happier with my education. My admissions rep calls me to make sure I am doing okay on a weekly basis. I didn't end up getting any money back from financial aid, but the quality of education I receive at NAU doesn't make that an issue. I love my online and on campus instructors, they always make sure I know what I am doing in each class. The Campus Director is always walking around greeting students, and I never need an appointment to meet with him. Where else can you get this kind of attention?? Surely not at the University of Minnesota with 300 other students sitting in an auditorium with you. NAU is accredited the same as the U of M, they just cater to non-traditional students lookins to make a change. They also have an 84% Graduation to Employment rate, I KNOW the U of M doesn't help you find a job like the Career Services at NAU. How about University of Phoenix... the largest college in the United States....FOR PROFIT and the cost per credit for their bachelors degrees are twice that of NAU. This article is such a joke, I am glad that they had nothing better to do and the fact that ONE student had a bad experience because she expected FREE money from the government to live off of didn't get her free loot. Thanks for the laugh.
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Jennifer Overson 11/19/2010 8:10:00 PM
Reading this articule frustrated me. I'm a young single mother and the perks to schools like National American University make it seem so easy. I had a similar experience with Minnesota School of Business. They said they would take care of everything and to just sign here, here and here. I ended up paying way more out of my own pocket then I was suppose too and I ended up dropping out of the school with a giant debt in my name. School set up for profit are in it for just that, profit! I went on to a STATE!!! college and I have had nothing but the best success and at a very low cost. I would like to see all private, profit based schools get shut down and see everyone one of their employees fired and turn out homeless.
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Been There 11/19/2010 7:37:00 PM
The author is dead on in regards to the goals, administration, and slim ethics of these diploma mills. I have worked for three of these local "schools" and the schools' administration is ruthless about recruiting students who have no chance of achieving any sort of employment outside of fast food. The parents of these pet rocks are the real targets, even though the "students" get the bulk of the sales pitch.
That is what the author skirted around, though. The overwhelming majority of the suckers drawn into for profit "education" are incapable of getting into a real university. They don't have the educational background, the focus, the motivation, or the basic intelligence required to be real students so their clueless parents sign them into Scam U because they have no place else to go.
Here's a clue for anyone wondering if the place they're about to sink their life savings into is for real: real educational facilities don't have to advertise on late night television. In fact, real schools have waiting lists, minimum requirements (SAT, ACT scores, achievement evidence, etc.), and they don't accept anyone who has a pulse and a federal loan. Just because you think you are special is no evidence that anyone else will do so, except the for-profit college world. They know you are special as long as you keep writing those checks.
Your comparison to the home mortgage debacle is dead on. There is no way this industry is deserving of one cent in public money. The chances that any of their graduates will find employment with the pitiful skills they will absorb is so close to zero that any gambler would call it that. The problem is everyone in the chain is corrupt or incompetent; the accrediting organizations, the politicians, the public education system that prepared these people so poorly, the schools themselves, and the parents who failed these children so miserably. With so many to blame and so many profiting, any solution is unlikely.
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Anonymous 11/19/2010 6:07:00 PM
I used to work for National American University and I did nothing but what was in the best interest of students. I agree this is irresponsible reporting, and it is irresponsible of this editor to allow this to be published. Financial Aid is never meant to be used for living expenses. It's for education costs only. NAU offers flex scheduling to allow students to work and attend college. Remember, college is not meant to be easy. Many of us worked one or two jobs while trying to get our education, and that includes traditional and non-traditional students. Please be more careful in the future before you listen to one person's bad experience and use it to deface an entire institution.
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bandon 11/19/2010 7:04:00 AM
Has anyone beside myself seen that all the pro-NAU people cant spell.
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MarsBars 11/18/2010 10:50:00 PM
Dear everyone bashing the writer:
Do some research. He's not as full of crap as you'd like to believe. It's as simple as typing "for-profit schools" in Google.
Here, I'll help you out:
* http://www.denverpost.com/opinion/ci_14244053
"The Post stories found ... 94% of students who go to for-profit schools get federal loans to pay for their education. In Colorado last year, of the $1.4 billion in federal loans students took out for college, 41% went to for-profit schools. Furthermore, 23% of students from Colorado for-profit institutions defaulted in the first three years in which they were required to make payments. The highest default rate for a Colorado four-year public college was 15%."
* http://www.wsbtv.com/news/25811827/detail.html
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Tom 11/18/2010 9:49:00 PM
Really? Public colleges and universities cost tax payers significantly more than the default rates of any "for profit" institution. How much are tax payers paying for stadiums? The reason why non-profits are less expensive than for profit schools is because they aren't being heavily subsidized by tax payers. Every for profit student saves tax payers even with higher default rates. What a totally bogus article. But what do you expect coming from such a rag of a paper.
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Charles Woodley 11/18/2010 8:44:00 PM
Speaking as a former student this school went downhill when they put in a portal that requires a degree in Information Technology. Ironic since in order to get the Information Technology degree the portal is required. Then there is the ebooks they force both professors and students are force use. I doubt the author knows anything about the subject he is covering. Trying to leave that school is terrible since they constantly harass student who try to leave. They think money grows on trees and I am constantly flaming there facebook page. Although flaming is not a good thing National American University is one of the few exceptions.
The students are not the only people dissatisfied with the way the school is going. I remember one of my professors arguing with the admins at the school and Rapid City, SD(the school's headquarters). Trying to keep the current Accounting 101 textbook in circualation. An actual textbook instead of an ebook that the school is pushing.
The ebook I mentioned earlier has almost no material because students are suppose to click on the links. The books are full of nothing but dead links. Also people aren't always near computer so most people pring the books at the school. When printed out the book has no more than 8-10 pages per chapter out of a 10-13 chapter book. Also the ebooks have no chapter breaks and essential for textbooks.
Also the Adminstration hasses student who try to leave without saying a bad word. I don't like to say anything negative in someone's presence but these idiots did not get a clue. After constantly hanging up on thse morans. This school in fact discouraged me from going to college again because of things like the portal and the curriculum.
I am so dissatisfied with the collegiate system that my advice is just stay working as either a construction worker, barista, or janitor. Going to college and university today is a big waste of money. Compared to what college was seven to ten years ago. When crap like the portal and ebooks did not exist at schools.
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East Coast Doug 11/18/2010 6:48:00 PM
These 'on-line' schools have discovered that the Federal Government is a student loan factory. Most of these schools charge 100% more than a typical university or community college. And the degrees - vetrinary assistant, medical assistant, etc are garbage. I've read that about 10% of the people actually stay in their 'professions'.
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Really? 11/18/2010 5:34:00 AM
First, I want to say that I am and have been employed by a for-profit institution for over six years. I have worked with some amazing students who have awesome success stories. To anyone who is taking this article at face value, I highly encourage you to do your research before you believe any of the garbage that this man is trying to sell.
In addition, I also recommend that if you are going to write a comment bashing an educational institution, that you check your spelling and grammar before submitting it. Maybe you should consider an education before you write a comment....just a thought...and I bet I could suggest one for you to consider!
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Sandy Waterson 11/18/2010 5:11:00 AM
I agree. We need both. And better accountability for all.
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Gavin 11/18/2010 1:47:00 AM
Sandy, Jason is right. You say "these schools take advantage of the unrealistic career expectations of students." These schools? How many English majors are writers from public schools? How many work in the field at all? This country's workforce needs for-profit schools. Bottom line. I would also consent that both for-profit AND public need tighter regulation and more accountability.
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Brett 11/18/2010 1:41:00 AM
"According to a report by the Department of Education, the average
tuition last year at a four-year for-profit school was $15,661, more than twice the in-state tuition at the University of Minnesota."
How do you figure this when tuition at the University of Minnesota for students taking 13 or more credits costs $4,897 per semester or $9,794 a year, not including a $698 student services fee and other fees? The article doesn't seem very well researched.
http://onestop.umn.edu/pdf/tuition_2010-11.pdf
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Josh 11/18/2010 12:55:00 AM
http://journalism.about.com/od/ethicsprofessionalism/a/libel.htm
not the gold standard by anymeans, but it might be an interesting read for the author who has clearly never heard of such things. Which might be why he writes for a local rag as opposed to anything bigger. But of course it seems he wouldn't want to do that. He might make money. Which would be hypocritical of him.
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Jason 11/18/2010 12:42:00 AM
Such a poorly written, biased piece. While I can't defend the costs or quality of all for-profit institutions, many students are better served by this style of education than in the "non-profit" sector. There is a large portion of society that does not want (and will not flurish in) liberal arts-focused classes containing upwards of 300 or more students. Small classes and a focused curriculum help many students who would have otherwise fallen through the cracks succeed and allow them to graduate and flurish. As for the "more game programmers than needed" argument - I ask if you hold History, Elementary Education and Psychology major granting universities to that same rigid standard?
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Sandy Waterson 11/18/2010 12:06:00 AM
Gavin and Mike; certainly there are a some jobs for game programmers, as there are for multi-media artists and graphic designers, etc., but the actual positions available are few compared to the students training for them. The reality is that these schools take advantage of the unrealistic career expectations of students -- and churn out scores of graduates that never, ever work in the industry.
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Harvard 11/18/2010 12:01:00 AM
Harvard is where Nick went. Nick, I'd ask for my money back if this is the best job you could get with such an expensive degree. Your facts aren't even accurate and you don't even ask second opinions. I think you wasted your money on a school that charges a whole lot more than any for-profit university. Are you the average that Harvard turns out or just at the bottom of your class. What a shame!
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Instructor 11/17/2010 11:54:00 PM
This is completely irresponsible, inaccurate reporting by someone who clearly feels that a liberal arts degree will get you more gainful employment than a career college. I teach at a career college, and you clearly have only second hand knowledge of how things like student financial aid even works. We offer a wide range of services from financial aid to housing & child care assistance, career counseling, employer panels, program-specific workshops, internships, community service opportunities and lifetime job placement assistance.
I attended school at the University of Minnesota, and if you want to talk about a school that doesn't give a damn about you as an individual, try getting any advising, career placement or counseling services from an institution serving almost 50,000 students.
Incidentally, I have seen ads on television for Hamline, College of St. Scholastica and SCSU. The U of M doesn't need to advertise because they are state supported and waste countless millions of taxpayer dollars on things like athletics and inflated salaries. This article is the continuation of a bunch of elitist, ignorant crap from an increasingly smug rag!
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Claire Hilgeman 11/17/2010 10:52:00 PM
An incredibly slanted view. Just like there are poorly run state colleges and universities, there are poorly run proprietary schools. Painting all for-profit schools with the same brush is misleading and inaccurate. It does a disservice to those proprietary schools who are provideing a quality, specialized, comprehensive education. Many proprietary schools hold the same accreditation of public colleges and universities or are actively working toward it. And whoever believes that public univiersities and colleges are not "out to make money",I am afraid they are sadly mistaken and uninformed.There are a plethora of public post-secondary students who were disallusioned and unahappy with their educations and drop out because "It seemed like once they had you enrolled and signed up for the loans, they didn't really care about whether you succeeded or failed." How many students drop out of public colleges and universiteis "without degrees and thousands of dolars in debt?" Plenty. Proprietary schools offer students opportunities and services that they can't receive in public institutions- especially large ones. They give students who were often less than stellar high school students an opportunity to shine and experience success for the first time. Articles that regurgitate tired and uninformed drivel do nothing to advance knowledge and open dialogue about the overall state of post-secondary education in the US and are therefore a waste of words.
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Anonymous 11/17/2010 10:48:00 PM
It only takes reading one line of this article to figure out that this author has no idea what he's talking about. You don't have to go any further than the first line to realize this guy doesn't know what fact checking is. Robbinsville? There is no such place.
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Gavin 11/17/2010 10:00:00 PM
Mike,
The shotgun blasts of unsubstantiated references in this ridiculous article were bad enough. Please don't add to it. You think that "game programmer" is a non-existent job? Are you joking? Have you not noticed that there are now as many commercials on TV for video games as there are for movies? I guess you also don't know that the video game industry is a 20 billion dollar industry. Or that the average salary of a "non-existent" game programmer is around $65,000. Me and several of my buddies went to for-profits because they trained us for a specific job and guess what, we're all working. Now. In this economy. I'm sick and tired of the for-profit bashing that going on. Public schools are accountable for almost nothing. I wish people would focus on that for a change.
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brock 11/17/2010 9:49:00 PM
I too have suffered the rath of a for profit school. Graduated from a Minneapolis art school in 2005 by the skin of my teeth. No consideration to seniors by staff was seriously common. As for my loans, I never saw a dime. Living expenses I said? Get a job.. Graduate success rate really high! No. 60 start, 8 finish, 3 get jobs. It's all sales. You must understand they don't care about you. They want your money. Your mom might, tell her. Government and loan company checks don't bounce. More, more, more! It took me 5 years to do what they said could be done in 3. I had a job. Best advice. Do your homework on what you want to do. Before you enroll. Don't think you'll figure it out along the way. Go to a physical and tangible classroom. Be the top of your class and don't take unnecessary classes. Sure, underwater basket weaving would be exciting but worth 700 dollars and diverting your focus? In all cases where money is involved, the squeeky wheel gets the grease. You have to make those people work for you. Complacency can be a disease you never new you had.
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Mike Andersen 11/17/2010 9:28:00 PM
The first thing I heard at unemployment work shops was to 'watch' out for 'education' offers like Dunwoody, ITT or NAT. These outfits train people for non-existent jobs, like 'game programmers'....
They combine students unrealistic career goals with massive student loans to score max profits, in the process -- saddling students with back-breaking student loans that will trip up their lives for decades.....they spend more dollars on marketing then education by more then 2-1! you!
There's a sucker born every minute, and a evil American Corporation ready to exploite. This petty nickel stuff doesn't happen in the rest of the actual'civilized' world. Another example of what a sad sack of shit we are as a people and country.
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Gavin 11/17/2010 9:20:00 PM
Nick, your lack of understanding concerning this issue and the population for-profits serve is not surprising at all. You're a Harvard boy. You probably don't know anyone who went to a for-profit and would consider them to be low-brow anyway. The reality out there is that there are a lot of people who want to better themselves that need extra help. Sure, there are a few bad apples, but most for-profits provide tons of extra attention and support that public schools cannot. But I'm sure you didn't need the extra help, did you? Nah, you were magna cum laude.
Oh, by the way, this was in the Boston Herald:
"Harvard University is hiking the cost of its education by 3.8 percent to surpass the $50,000 level.
The school announced today that tuition and room and board will cost $50,724 for the 2010-11 academic year. Fees will make it even more expensive."
What exactly are you trying to achieve with this story Mr. Harvard?
Cordially,
Gavin Johnson
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Discusted 11/17/2010 8:37:00 PM
People never talk about how much money is wasted on sports in this country. Universities waste billions of dollars of tax payers money for their sporting programs. So why can't a University make money. There are a lot more companies out there recieving federal money and profiting off of it than just for-profit Universities. What someone fails to realize is that the big University schools can't handle all of the students that want to attend school. Didn't they say on the news last year that U of M accepts 1 in 25 applications. I agree with the person that said this is poor reporting. You should get another profression.
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Really 'When in Doubt'? 11/17/2010 7:57:00 PM
That's interesting 'When in Doubt'. Every time I watch a football game on Saturdays every school is advertising. So I guess students shouldn't consider Stanford, UCLA, University of Florida, Rutgers, etc. who all drop large amounts of advertising dollars on national television.
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milan33 11/17/2010 6:31:00 PM
I don't understand why anyone would choose to attend a school called "National American University" in the first place. It's like they thought, "Hey, let's slap some important-sounding, vaguely patriotic words together and call it a school."
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JR 11/17/2010 6:43:00 AM
What a bunch of crap. I go here and I love it. To show how bad the reporter is. The MOA campus hasn't been there for years. You need to get the facts straight.
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Joe 11/17/2010 6:41:00 AM
This is totally irresponsible reporting. I go to NAU and have not had any problems. No one has ever said that our loans are for living expenses. The loans are for tuition and books only. There isn't enough money to be barrowed to live off of. The money doesn't go the school. The money is sent directly to the student from the loan company. NAU CAN NOT be sitting on anyones money and making interest off of it. I over heard MS Leef talking before class to someone that she wanted the school to approve the extra money be sent to her so she could bury her pet dog that passed away. I don't think the loan institutions need to be loaning anyone the money to bury a PET. I am sorry but this article is an example of bad and irresponsible reporting. You obviously did not do any homework to find out the facts. By printing this garbage you have devalued my hard work to finish a degree at a school that has done nothing but help me and be there every time I've had questions. I looked for a small university that I would feel like a student and not a number. The employees take the time to remember the students names and I get a big hello Joe from every employee that I've dealt with and every instructor I have had in the past. I would have never gotten that at a large U school. Just because a school makes money doesn't mean they have to be condemned. Large Universities waste a lot more of the taxpayers money than for-profit schools do. Again I would like this article pulled and an apology written. This hurts every person that holds a degree from a for-profit university that have worked hard to get it. Talk to more people and you will find a majority of people that have had nothing but positive experiences with NAU and for-profit universities. This article is nothing but a JOKE.
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kw 11/17/2010 6:01:00 AM
sickening. the law that changed to let them fake their own accreditation blows my fucking mind. suddenly businesses can call themselves Universities and Colleges though they conduct no research and have no transferable credits (and offer "degrees" in areas of study such as "drawing blood"). seems perfectly reasonable if, in fact, we want to be the laughing stock of the global economy. only a matter of time before Costco gets into the for-profit edumucation racket.
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Frank 11/17/2010 4:44:00 AM
As someone who worked in proprietary schools for over 15 years I can attest that this story is not new. These schools get negative publicity about every ten years, then the fury ebbs and they carry on. There are good for-profit schools out there, but they are in the minority. If you don't have the grades to get into a public university then earn your stripes at the community college first. Most public colleges will accept your classes for transfer and it is a much cheaper option than any private school. The profit motive should be taken out of education.
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When In Doubt 11/17/2010 3:40:00 AM
There's a few specific rules when looking into which school you want to go to.
The first one is simple:
Don't even consider going to a college that advertises on television.