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Proposal to ban 18+ shows could kill Minneapolis's music scene

City Councilwoman Lisa Goodman says binge drinking is a problem among minors

It's a humid July night on the West Bank outside the Triple Rock bar. A dozen college-age rap fans are stealing a few gulps of summer air between sets when a familiar bass line summons them back inside. The Sharpie-wielding bouncer, who looks like a cross between a Hell's Angel and the singer from Blues Traveler, eyes them suspiciously, leaning purposefully next to the sign on the door that reads "18+ I.D."

The MC begins his first number, and the crowd congeals into a blob on the dance floor. It's impossible to tell each patron's age, let alone what beverage they're cradling. A pig-tailed girl who looks to be on the wrong side of 13 bounces by sipping a Pabst. Two guys lingering on the side seem like the Corona type but toss back Red Bulls instead, thick X's marked on each hand.

If City Councilwoman Lisa Goodman gets her way, this scene could become a thing of the past. Just two days prior to this show, club owners, managers, and promoters in Minneapolis learned that the City Council was exploring restrictions on 18+ events. If the ordinance passes, it leaves two options: dry shows for the all-ages crowd or 21+ shows where the booze flows freely.

"We would lose anywhere from $50,000 to $100,000 per month and would close if this law goes into effect," says John Barlow, managing partner at downtown's newest event complex, Epic. "This would be a deathblow to us as a concert venue. There's a $2 million project here that will sit idle and dark."

The proposal follows an aborted attempt earlier this year to crack down on college nights at bars. Back in February, the Public Health Advisory Committee unsuccessfully lobbied the City Council for a ban on happy hours, two-for-one drink specials, and drinking games. When that failed, the committee approached Ward 7 Councilwoman Goodman with the idea of restricting 18+ shows.

Goodman says a ride-along with the Minneapolis Police Department last May opened her eyes to the problem.

"What I saw on Hennepin Avenue at 3 a.m. on a Sunday night is not what most of us are used to seeing on a normal night in Minneapolis," Goodman says. "On the corner of Hennepin and Fourth, there were hundreds of people standing in the parking lot, blocking the entrance and hanging over the ramp, to the point the horse police had to enter from the exit. They were screaming and yelling and drunk, and clearly these people were very young."

Though she's been getting phone calls and emails from concerned club-goers, musicians, and DJs, Goodman says there's no choice but to do something.

"I just don't know how I can in good faith look at these public-health people and tell them we don't propagate youth access to alcohol when we allow 18-year-olds into bars where 21-year-olds can pass them alcohol," she says with a twinge of exhaustion. "If I don't do something to address this now, I'm going to face something far more onerous."

Fearing the worst, managers, club owners, and promoters mobilized earlier this month, gathering for the first of what would be several meetings at Epic. Among the clubs represented were the Fine Line, First Avenue, the Loring, and Spin. Barlow and booking manager Beecher Vaillancourt explained to them why "this thing would just kill us."

But no matter how the particulars shake out, even the lightest restriction would have a serious impact on local nightlife. A petition circulating on Facebook lists a number of headliners who would likely skip Minneapolis should the law pass, including the Yeah Yeah Yeahs, Girl Talk, and Phoenix.

All but three of First Avenue's scheduled shows for August are 18+ gigs, as are dance nights Too Much Love, Honeymoon, Get Cryphy, and Ritmo Caliente.

"If people aren't able to do 18+ shows with alcohol, it's going to be hard to run bands through here," says Cabooze booking manager James "Taco" Martin. "A lot of bands require it because they can sell a lot of merch to people who aren't buying drinks with the money in their pocket."

The council's effort makes no sense to Parker Jones, a 19-year-old student at the University of Minnesota, where binge drinking is on the decline according to a Washington University School of Medicine study published this month. Jones said he goes to several 18+ shows per month and hasn't noticed a problem with people drinking inside the club—they drink before they go in. He says the bill would just move that kind of behavior to all-ages shows.

"They're focusing on a really small part of a societal problem," said Jones. "Why penalize the many of us who like to go out and hear good music because of a few people who would drink too much in any situation?" 

 
  • Yourmomscooter 10/15/2011 7:27:00 AM

    John Barlow is a scum bag. He likes to screw people over for money.

  • Sarah 08/28/2009 8:05:00 PM

    Being 18 myself, I go to alot of shows and venues and not once have I ever drank at any show. I believe going to a show and getting hammered is stupid and a waste. My friends and I go to shows for the music, not the booze or to drink. I will admitt, I do drink. But woldn't risk 1. Getting kicked out. 2. missing any of the show. The binge drinking this will cause for some people will be 10x worse! They will do it all before hand and they will drink and drive. She should just back off and stay away from something she doesn't know anything about.

  • Girl in Desert 08/28/2009 12:23:00 AM

    Live in Utah JO? Try Las Vegas, all shows where alcohol is served are 21+.

  • Mike 08/22/2009 4:19:00 AM

    If this is some effort to decrease under age drinking then it's totaly pointless. I've been to plenty of 18+ shows before I was 21 and the majority of the 18, 19, and 20 year olds aren't there to drink, they're there for the music. I drank when I was underage, a lot, and not once did I drink at an 18+ show. I was there for the music. no lie

  • Joe 08/15/2009 4:45:00 AM

    Why can't they restrict drinking to upstairs at venues like First Ave. Downstairs could be alcohol-free and all-ages. Don't know the setup at Triple Rock or Epic.

  • Nick Lasky 08/05/2009 4:30:00 AM

    so you close liqueur stores at 8, weed is illegal when drinking is 10 times more dangerous, and the speed limit in all of st. Paul is 55 on 3 lane freeways.... sounds like someone never was picked on a lot in school, give the people a break....

  • Danielle Thrush 08/01/2009 2:45:00 AM

    I'm a 2o year old musician. My fan base is anywhere from 8 years old to 60 years old. But the majority are 18 and older. Saying my own peers can't come to my shows is ridiculous. I can't survive denying the 18-20 year olds access to my music or the fans 21+ the right to drink. I fight tooth and nail to promote my shows. Live music is already a dieing passtime, and stripping us of a huge chunk of our audience is going to be deadly. All of the music venues in college neighboorhoods will die down without their very own neighboors being able to attend. And by the way, if there is anywhere kids don't attempt to drink when they're underage it's at a club or bar where they have huge x's on their hands. Are we going to start banning under-agers at restaruants too? Because we can steal a sip there as well. Let's not be foolish. The consumption is NOT happening at the venues. I had a good cry over this by the way. I'll be banned from attending the shows of my musicians and friends as well. Which is a serious problem for a networking musician. So thanks dear. Your idea is going to killing our art here once and for all.

  • Webmaster 07/31/2009 3:00:00 AM

    Thanks for sharing that, Ari. I'm curious how City Pages is overreacting to this proposed ordinance. This was a very fair article considering the paper's long-standing ties with the local music scene. It got both sides but did point out that if this is drafted into the city's books, there will be problems. And the latter is a fact. And why shouldn't the clubs react as they have? You're threatening their very livelihood. It's like not running or ducking when someone suddenly pulls out a gun. We don't know whether you're going to shoot, we just know you have a gun.

  • Ari Herstand 07/30/2009 7:58:00 PM

    That's the exact same reply I got from Lisa initially... so then i wrote: Lisa, I very much appreciate your reply. Very noble of you. The Fine Line does not section off areas for those who do and do not want to drink. I know they have their mini balcony upstairs, but it is not there solely for those who want or do not want to drink. I've been to many 18+ or all age shows there where they serve alcohol on the floor and upstairs and there are no restrictions on where you can or cannot watch the show. I don't think this is a favorable solution either - telling those who paid the cover to see the band they came to see that they have to watch the show from a less favorable position in the club just because of their age. This is not fair to the band, to the patrons who paid to get into the club to watch their band or to the club itself (it forces the club to redesign it's interior to accommodate this ordinance). I think if your proposal were based off of statistics or independent studies possibly dealing with undercover, underagers in clubs easily drinking or something of the sort your case would be stronger, but because the Minneapolis music community knows how hard the clubs work to make sure there are no underagers drinking in their clubs it's going to be very difficult to garner support for something like this. In addition, this is the wrong direction you are taking dealing with underage drinking. If you want to actually make a difference and gain public support on the issue of underage drinking create incentives for those who are underage and DON'T drink. Don't work to punish the entire community at large because of a site you saw one night at 3am in a parking ramp. My freshman year of college at the U I lived in Middlebrook Hall and while many of my peers were drinking in the dorms or going to Frat parties on frat row I walked to the Cabooze or took a bus to the Fine Line or First Ave to catch live concerts 3-4 nights a week. I was 18 at the time and I was so fortunate and grateful that I had places to go see my favorite bands who came to town AND the thriving local music scene (where sometimes I was one of 30 people in the club). I wasn't against drinking my freshman year of college and sure I did it occasionally, but I never did it at the music venue. Never. I remember seeing people getting kicked out for apparently holding a drink or something like that (i never saw it), but it's common knowledge that you don't drink in a music venue if you are underage. The clubs are so strict about this. I don't see why you think you will have an impact whatsoever on underage binge drinking by adding these restrictions and passing an ordinance. The clubs do a great job! Leave them alone, please. I'm not about "killing the bill." Yes, after the City Pages article I was furious and have raised hell on my Twitter, blog, Facebook, Myspace etc and have many people in the Minneapolis music community responding because this is not an issue we take lightly to. This is our livelihood. Talk about people out of work. This will put so many more out of work (musicians, bartenders, clubs, promoters, etc) than it will "help" with the underage, binge drinking problem. Work with the high schools on bettering education about binge drinking and the negative effects. Create incentive opportunities like a government subsidized ticket price for DDs and those UNDER 21 (who typically have to pay more for not drinking in the club). I could help brainstorm a hundred other possible solutions that isn't detrimental to the Minneapolis music community at large. Again, I very much appreciate you keeping the discussion open and listening to the voices of your community. I urge you to drop this proposal altogether and go in a different direction addressing the underage drinking problem. This is not the solution. Not even close. Peace, ~Ari -- and then SHE replied... (very mature of her I might ad :P Ari, I am confused about your reply, there is no proposal to drop so why are you continuing to ask us to drop something we have no even drafted - this is a discussion and it's been a good one, why don't you call me if you want to hear it from my mouth 673-2207. I will also say I am not replying to everyone who has been in touch and I am shocked at the behavior of most who have e-mailed me - their vitriol is not making me back off but ignore what could otherwise be helpful comment, this kind of response to anyone other than me would result is a happy hour ban too :) Lisa

  • j 07/30/2009 9:31:00 AM

    Here is the response I got after writing to our good friend Lisa. "I think City Pages, some blogs and the nightclub owners have really overreacted to the concern expressed by many that the under 21 crowd needs to be stopped from entering nightclubs or that 18 plus shows should be banned. There are many ways to achieve the goal of less underage folks having access to liquor downtown short of a ban such as what 1st avenue & the Fine Line already do such as separate space for those who drink and those who can't. It's unfortunate that this conversation is being turned into "stop the bill" there is no bill, the city doesn't even pass bills we do things by ordinance and there is no ordinance drafted, introduced or even language for one being discussed at this time. I understand the next step is to do some focus groups of folks who are part of the music/bar scene to get feedback about what kinds of proposals makes sense to a majority of folks involved. We are simply in the discussion phase, because of my interest in transparency we have been in discussions with the industry about our concerns. Unfortunately their reaction has been something along the line of underage drinking is a problem but we don't create or add to this problem or allow that - rather than provide constructive advice about how to address public health and safety concerns. I live downtown, I drink and go to bars and clubs. I understand the importance of a vibrant downtown. This discussion will continue but will not result in an outright ban and there are no plans to bring anything forward anytime soon and without extensive feedback and public process. I appreciate your constructive comments and will pass them on as part of the discussion. Lisa"

  • Susan 07/30/2009 12:56:00 AM

    David makes a good point. I'm a 22-year-old who still gets stopped at the Mall of America and asked if I'm under 16 (the parent/guardian after-dark rule). Clearly I look "young" but I am, in fact, legally able to drink. As far as being drunk and rowdy, I know MANY people well over the legal age who are drunk and rowdy, and will continue to be even if this rule is put into effect since they are of legal age. The "help" vs. "hurt" ratio on this proposal is very skewed.

  • David 07/29/2009 11:51:00 PM

    What a crock! The Councilwoman Goodman says, "They were screaming and yelling and drunk, and clearly these people were very young." But were they under 21, Councilwoman Goodman? Do you really think this law will keep young looking people from doing stupid things after bar close? People will just be forced to binge drink before the show. Good thinking, Councilwoman Goodman, way to solve the problem and way to punish business owners and those over 21 for the already illegal actions of a few. Why do we need another law, when there is already one in place? People like Councilwoman Goodman make me puke. Here's an idea to cure binge-drinking and underage drinking at 18+ shows, MAKE THE DRINKING AGE 18! Wouldn't that solve the problem she is trying to solve just as easy with less impact on businesses and stop binge drinking among young looking people almost everywhere?

  • Ari Herstand 07/29/2009 11:41:00 PM

    Send an email to Lisa: Lisa.Goodman@ci.minneapolis.mn.us or call: 612.673.2207 Lisa, As a local musician who appeals to a younger crowd, one of the only ways I am able to make a living doing what I do is playing 18+/All Age nights. If the club can't make money on alcohol they can't pay the bands (me) or give the bands the money from the door. Please attend some 18+ local music concerts at the Varsity Theater, Fine Line or First Ave and please note that these clubs (and all others) do an EXCELLENT job of policing their club. Excellent. Also, do you honestly believe that 18-20 year olds are binge drinking because someone is passing them drinks? Clearly, you have not attended local music venues because if you have you'd note that everyone under 21 gets a giant black X on their hands and everyone over 21 gets a wristband. The clubs then walk around or watch from the bar and make sure no one with an X is drinking. In addition, at the Varsity Theater on nights where they have people under 21 in the club they will only sell ONE drink to ONE person. If that person wants more than one drink they need to bring up the friend they are buying the drink for and show the bartenders their wristband. If this passes you will effectively throw me back into the coffee shop day job world, and basically shut down some of the best music venues in the Midwest and kill the incredible Minneapolis music scene. Are you comfortable having that on your shoulders? Your proposal to have alcohol free nights will not work. How will clubs and bands make any money? On the door cover? I barely scrape by taking the majority of the door cover as it is. If I had to give the club the majority of the door money there is no way I'd make enough to sustain. There are better ways to approach this issue. I don't condone underage drinking and I do my best to put an end to it when I see it and there is a hell of a lot more underage drinking going on at house parties than in music venues. Honestly I have NEVER seen a person under 21 even take a sip of alcohol in a music venue because they know they will get kicked out the second they do. I've attended and/or played over 200 local music shows in the past 6 years. How many have you been to? Sincerely, Ari Herstand

  • Alexander Steele 07/29/2009 10:28:00 PM

    If we do this... its going to hurt the entire scene in Minneapolis. Bars will lose tons of money because they charge 18+ on average $3-4 more to get in to offset the cost of a beverage they WONT be consuming in the first place. The drinking age in this state used to be 18 anyway, its not like kids are becoming any more innocent. We will not be saving them from themselves if we do this. All it will do will bar them from events and keep them out of the city spending money (which for an 18 year old is pretty damn dispensable) for another 3 years. The music community in Minneapolis is one that I take particular pride in; being that I am a musician. I know for a fact that we lose many opportunities to make money on merchandise and lose even more opportunities to reach younger people because they cannot come into our shows. It will enrage the music community and what I foresee happening is more private shows which will not/cannot be regulated by anyone at all. Stop trying to "mom" the youth of Minneapolis and trust that children are being responsible and respectful of the places they frequent.

  • kai 07/29/2009 3:20:00 AM

    on the bright side, the death of the nightlife and concert economy in minneapolis will coincide with a burgeoning fake ID economy...or more shows in st. paul

  • Mister_Grumpy 07/28/2009 9:52:00 AM

    I would love to post several reasons why Lisa Goodman just doesn't get it, and it way off base, but everyone else has already done so with their well thought-out comments (I'm also pretty hammered anyway). I'll just say this, Goodman is out of touch with reality (I'm being nice) and needs a severe beating with a clue-by-four. If the sight of inebriated and obnoxious young people (lemme guess, she checked their IDs, right?) is disturbing to her, I can only question her judgement (not that I have much faith in it to begin with) when it comes to REAL issues. Silly hoe . . .

  • Susan 07/28/2009 3:42:00 AM

    As someone who's done QUITE a bit of research regarding binge drinking among the 18-24yo range, I've learned that more rules and regulations do NOT solve binge drinking problems. Therefore, putting rules in effect that won't solve much, and in return will damage our city's economic system (entertainment venues are having a hard enough time as it is in this recession!) is just reckless thinking.

  • kyle 07/27/2009 10:44:00 PM

    Jackie couldn't have said it better, and I think we all know this is all to true. And how many concerts has this lady went to because everyone i go to i get offered Ecstasy and other hard drugs, but shit that's nothing....haha

  • Kyle 07/27/2009 10:36:00 PM

    WOW, I think that is absolutely pathetic that this councilwoman has nothing better to think about then the concert seen. Do something about all the homeless crackheads around here. Just shows how worthless the govt is, good job councilwoman, 100% sarcastic!

  • Android 07/27/2009 3:14:00 AM

    The headline should read "Binge drinking minors say city councilwoman Lisa Goodman is a problem." C'mon lady, they are kids. You tell them not to do something and not only will they do it but they'll drive it home and it's waiting for you on your front step as you park you $45k Volvo after buying some new, gaudy earrings from some scummy jewelry store whilst chatting on your mobile phone. Lisa, YOU are being a punk.

  • MaliciousDisorder 07/25/2009 3:49:00 AM

    Lower the drinking age to 18

  • Joe 07/25/2009 3:46:00 AM

    Some one needs to get on the city council. Unfortunately for now you should expect to close shop no matter what. I don't see you have the time to get this done when your left side is thinking safety and control to the nines and the right hates anything but Perry Como. I don't know the current makeup of your council but I assume being in Minnisocold it's most likely left. Here in San Diego the left commands no cigarettes basically anywhere, no booz on the beach or sidewalks, no this or that. and on and on. No one's attacking this particular law here yet and I don't expect them to unless politician reads this and acts on it. It's a valient and costly fight and you might win with a liberal judge. it's really a shame.

  • jo 07/24/2009 1:48:00 AM

    Do we live in Utah and I missed the memo?

  • John 07/23/2009 3:41:00 AM

    If you're binge drinking at a concert, you must be loaded. I believe rum and cokes were $4.50 at 1st Ave last time I was there. Regardless, Lisa Goodman has a fine point. While we're at it, let's have 21+ nights at restaurants, the State Fair, and college.

  • Jackie 07/22/2009 11:38:00 PM

    A policy like this is not only potentially damaging to the Minneapolis economy, creates even greater health and safety risks than a few 19-year-olds taking a few sips of a vodka and cranberry. Binge drinking before concerts is a mainstay for many underage concert-goers - the amount of alcohol they can actually get at a venue is negligable. Dry shows inevitably increase the amount of pre-party binge drinking, drinking and driving, and open containers in vehicles for all ages. If Goodman is really concerned about health and safety risks she should leave the Minneapolis music scene alone.

  • Michael Ringheim 07/22/2009 9:29:00 PM

    Unfortunately Lisa Goodman is suffering from some rather severe myopia. This is clearly not the time to be playing Jenga with the night life economy, or really any aspect of the economy that is still making money on any sort of regular basis. Her overprotective attitude towards "saving the children" is almost philistine in nature, if for no other reason than her complete disregard for the effects these actions might have on the currently flourishing Minneapolis music scene. What exactly did Ms Goodman witness that she can no longer ignore? Rambunctious kids at the wee hours of the morn? A blocked parking garage? What realm of logic does she function in if she believes underage adults can obtain alcohol passed to them by their 21+ friends that couldn't be purchased for them in even larger quantities under less supervision from the same people?

  • BigDumDav 07/22/2009 9:11:00 PM

    Perhaps Lisa should view a 18+ show from the inside of a venue vs poor crowd control by Mpls' finest outside. Better yet, do somethin about the guys walking my alley looking for shit to steal...

  • matt 07/22/2009 6:22:00 AM

    this happened in my hometown of fargo, nd back in 2000, it destroyed the scene and created a rift between the all-ages and 21+ crowds. i pray it doesn't happen in minneapolis. show attendance will be cut in half, bands will make less money, and minneapolis will become a less-desirable touring stop.

  • Helm Matthews 07/22/2009 5:52:00 AM

    I believe in progress, not regress. Apparently, Ms. Goodmama believes in the latter.

  • Justacoolcat 07/22/2009 2:11:00 AM

    It seems to me that most venues that host 18+ shows do a great job at self policing the event to keep minors from drinking at the show. This is totally ridiculous.

  • jgram 07/22/2009 1:47:00 AM

    I live in Tempe, AZ and go to a lot of 18+ shows that serve alcohol. What is somewhat of an annoyance, but really seams to work here, is the sectioning off of the 21+ area within the venue. It can be an awkward setup, but you can't get near the bar unless you have a wristband. Given to you, of course, by the bouncer at the front door who's checked your ID. There's no need to ban 18+ shows, they should just look at how other cities handle it. MPLSTP better figure something out before your music scene ends up like ours... Even Phoenix won't come to Phoenix!

  • Penny Anne Meyer 07/22/2009 1:34:00 AM

    Lisa Goodman, must be stopped. I am sorry i voted for this pain in the ass when i still lived in the district. I think she has mental problems.

 

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