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Noblax 02/04/2012 5:21:00 PM
I can't be certain the bartender's motivation was racism, but all things considered, you have to admit there are so many racist homosexuals of all colors out there. The pervading presence of Noblax disease among white guy men is no myth (you know, the guys who are always posting stuff like "no blacks!" on grindr & a4a profiles).
And then you have the ones who DO like black men and end up becoming bitter when their ignorant comments manifest inner prejudices that are unfounded.
Kinda like this moron at Emory: https://twitpic.com/8efjee
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Ifno 07/17/2011 10:07:00 PM
In New York racism is alive and well within the gay community. I laugh a the fact that gay marriage is legal. The same white elitist gays that pushed to get the law passed are the same ones who oppress black in and out of the gay community.
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Fitzfitzfitz 05/14/2011 1:16:00 AM
I knew and worked with Jamez when he was in the Air Force, he is an easy going guy. They had to push him to get a reaction, thats just how he is. Im sorry this happened to a good guy.....
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Ragincajunval Pendelton36 04/11/2011 6:16:00 AM
I don't believe the bartender/manager of the 19 bar one bit. In fact it does not surprise me that he denies the allegations because well that person (if you can call him that) doesn't want a lawsuit & then lose his job. I'll say this I NEVER EVER want to visit Minneapolis.
What a bunch of hateful pricks. Mr. Smith save up what you can & then move down South to Atlanta, I've heard that its better anyway.
Minneapolis YOU SUCK!
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HatesRacistGays 03/20/2011 6:46:00 AM
I agree with you 100%. Yes he is a f****** racist fag piece of shit! And he had the nerve to say he isn't racist? Wtf ever. And unfortunately, this is so common. I don't understand how the hell a queer can be racist when in societies eyes, they're already at the bottom of the barrel. So for all of you gays that say "I'm only into this group of people or sorry, not into blah, blah, blah" and sit back and call it a preference-screw every last one of you. People like that gives all of us gays a bad name. Why the hell do we have a rainbow flag as our symbol in the first place?
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Miles 09/15/2010 10:48:00 AM
I just moved here last year and I hate this place! It's THE most racist city that I have ever lived in I WILL be moving A.S.A.P. Forget Minneapolis...
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Victor 09/11/2010 2:20:00 PM
http://www.adam4adam.com/?p=CrazyP180 "NO Asians or Blacks please"...and this profile comes from an educated student from USC. Interesting.
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Ransom423 08/04/2010 8:21:00 AM
http://www.adam4adam.com/?p=Ransom423
This white guy with pubes is so racist and said Blacks have no brain , ugly and just have a dick.
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Hotstraightjock 09/05/2009 10:00:00 AM
http://www.adam4adam.com/?p=Hotstraightjock
This white gay shit is racist
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Bobbi 04/22/2009 8:53:00 PM
Big deal! he found racism in the gay community? What a shocker! It's all over the place. Now if he wants to go pout like a baby, then shame on City Pages for giving him a forum to do so. He would have done better by going on craigslist.
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Joey 04/13/2009 11:54:00 PM
While I certainly feel for this guy, I also feel if you go looking for it, you're going to find it.
It sucks, but racism is everywhere, in the black community too. It's this whole "We won't stop being racist until you stop being racist!!!" crap that really takes the cake.
I love the whole "gay isn't the new black, the old black is still here." That's great. "Why should you worry about your problems we still have our own problems! You should worry only about us!"
It's enough to make someone republican.
And for the record, the NAACP lead in Iowa denounced the gay marriage decision. So, homophobia is very very much alive in the black community.
It sucks, both ways. i wish it wasn't there, and you won't get the racist crap from me, but you also won't get my sympathy here without first a denouncement outta your mouth of the NAACP or hell, just talk about something else.
--Joey
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Joe Frisbie 04/11/2009 4:57:00 AM
Your all a bunch of Sick Sad Homo's.Your also liberal fools for voting for the Retarded American hating Al Franken and Obama who bows to Muslim Kings.Blow it out your As-!
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Joe Frisbie 04/11/2009 4:57:00 AM
Your all a bunch of Sick Sad Homo's.Your also liberal fools for voting for the Retarded American hating Al Franken and Obama who bows to Muslim Kings.Blow it out your As-!
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T'Yanna 03/24/2009 9:44:00 AM
I have lived in the Twin Cities my entire life. I have been active in the GLBT community here since I was a teenager and I have to agree 100% with Jamez Smith. As a black, lesbian, I experience racism in the Twin Cities GLBT community more than anywhere else! It's something other "black gays," and I talk about frequently. There are only a few gay bars in the Twin Cities I feel comfortable spending my hard earned money in.
I think that it is very sad, that most of the people that commented on this article would rather discount Smith's experiences than believe that perhaps there is a problem here. That really helps fix the problem!! That's another big problem here in the Twin Cities, no none believes in racism here, so when it happens to you, you are just told it was you, and nothing is done to educate or make it better.
This is my home, where I am from and it's ashame that I will have to leave it to be treated fairly.
Racism hurts. When your pain is looked over, or called imaginary is when it turns to anger!
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Kim 03/24/2009 4:42:00 AM
I was very saddened to read about Jamez Smith's experiences with racism in Minneapolis. I know racism exists in Mpls, just as it unfortunately exists, to varying degrees, in all cities across the nation. But it is even more disheartening when that prejudice comes from another group of individuals who themselves are often the subject of gay prejudice and stereotypes.
I am proud to live in Minneapolis and like to think (maybe naively) that we are truly a more culturally-diverse, open-minded city compared to many (most?) other large cities in the U.S. I'm just hoping that Jamez realizes that there ARE a lot of great, non-racist, non-prejudice people in this city, and he shouldn't let a few ignorant "rotten apples" spoil his overall impression of Minneapolis. Hopefully one day those "rotten apples" will see the light and know that racism or any other prejudice is a form of hate, and hate does not do ANYONE any good!
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Bob McPhearson 03/23/2009 5:12:00 AM
I don't know whY you are all so excited. This is just yet another Terribly Written article put out by the City Pages and their "writers."
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Derrick 03/23/2009 4:25:00 AM
i kinda feel like this is just beating a dead horse. yes there is racism, and sexism and whatever else ends with an "ism".. but seriously if you are going out to LOOK for someone to not serve you or whatever it might be... then we dont want to hear it. i am white and i have been a bartender and server for years. and i wouldnt think twice about who i was serving... black, white, younger, older, i know not everyone is like me and like i said there is racism other there but if you want to fit in then maybe you should go to the 90s. theres plenty of black, white, mexican, asian and GAY people there. the bouncers are mainly black, maybe you wont feel shunned there. this story is old and is a cry for attention.
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Chuck St. Mane 03/23/2009 12:29:00 AM
I feel bad that Mr. Smith felt like he was being mistreated. Unfortunately, there are still people in our society who make insensitive statements all the time. My concern is that he seems to immediately attribute any sort of ill treatment on his part to solely to being a person of color, and that he seems to jump to conclusions about things quickly. I'm also concerned with the way Mr. Campbell the writer, has seemed to skew several facts about the GLBT community. I am a person of color myself, and am active in supporting the GLBT community. The local bear groups here in town celebrate diversity on all fronts, regardless of your color, or type. We have people of all shapes, sizes, and backgrounds, our only requirement is mutual respect and the want to have fun hanging out. I find it a bit ignorant of Mr. Campbell to make Mr. Smith's beliefs about the gay community seem like they were/are all true. I know racism still does exist in all society, and they are racist people in all walks of life. But the point should have been made that in the GLBT community, acceptance, tolerance, mutual respect and diversity is celebrated. We are all different, we all have dealt with struggles in our lives, and we often have been the victims of discrimination and harassment by others. Which is exactly the reason the GLBT community goes out of it way to promote inclusion. Using a website like the gay.com chat room to represent how the community is as a whole is a bit uninformed. I find Mr. Smith's belief that being GLBT is somehow a "mark against them" saddening. And using the term "white privilege" while trying to condemn the GLBT community for racism is a bit silly. The letter written to the 19 Bar does seem to jump to conclusions. Mr. Smith seems to believe it is "glaringly obvious" people never get overlooked waiting to order at a gay bar, unless it is because they are of color. I don't think that is very sound reasoning, I guess. I find the 19 Bar, along with all of the bars me and my friends visit in the Twin Cities to be places that promote diversity, fun, and acceptance. I'd like to think better communication/understanding with those he has conflicts on Mr. Smith's part would go a long way. We live in an imperfect world, and we all are just doing what we can to make it through. But labeling a group/place as racists without much fact is tad ludicrous on both Mr. Smith and Mr. Campbell's part. I have found the GLBT community here in the Twin Cities to be especially diverse and accommodating to all GLBT people. I hope both Mr. Smith and Mr. Campbell are able to learn more about the GLBT community here and interact with all the wonderful people that make up that community. Thank you.
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Bruce Johansen 03/22/2009 9:50:00 PM
From my perspective, the main flaw of the article is that it individualizes the situation, making it essentially about one person, Jamez Smith, and his experience primarily with one business. It�s no wonder the piece raised the ire of some of the bar�s patrons and that they in turn were dismissive of Smith�s account.
Having had several people of color�friends, neighbors, profs, grad students, and top-notch undergrads�describe to me their encounters with racism in more unexpected places than a bar, my inclination is to trust Smith when he recounts how he experienced things. As a result, I regret that the reporter stopped where he did.
The story would have been more effective, faced less skepticism, and told a more important set of truths if it had proceded to explore some of the deeper issues of race and privilege that Smith�s experiences point to. One quote stood out for me: �Smith has a hard time understanding how any gay man can be racist. �They know what oppression feels like. How can they turn around and be this way?� he says. �It�s white privilege. The only mark against them is they�re gay.�
An abbreviated version of Smith�s experience with the 19 Bar could have led to that quote and then segued into a discussion of some of the bigger issues packed into it. In turn, the reporter could have brought in multiple voices and personal histories that would have made the piece not strictly about one person and one bar, but rather about patterns of racism that persist not just in Twin Cities LGBT circles but in LGBT communities elsewhere and more broadly throughout society.
Bruce J, Minneapolis
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Jerry 03/21/2009 10:00:00 PM
Dear Gilbert:
I understand the point you made regarding the unwillingness of many of the readers to give credence to Jamez�z point of view, and be sensitive to his feelings. However, I believe the one-sided nature of the article felt like an attack on the 19 Bar and the GLBT community. Which, immediately, put people on the defensive, and when defending our points of view we tend to lash out without regard for opposing point of view, in order that ours is not overlooked or appear invalid.
You�re right about the manager of the 19 Bar; he did acknowledge the impact the incident had on Jamez�s feelings. Perhaps, if given the opportunity, the other parties mentioned in the article may have displayed the same compassion, and the readers would have felt more sympathetic toward Jamez�s perspective.
My argument is that the article should have been more complete, or presented in a way which would have better represented both sides of the story.
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Gilbert A. 03/21/2009 9:33:00 AM
Dear Disappointed:
I share your view that the LGBT community and communities of color would be most effective in achieving their goals through cross cultural collaboration. As with Brandon Lacy Campos, who responded earlier to this article, I also have in some form or other worked in queer and people of color organizing in some capacity since college.
An important part of this work, however, is to explore the barriers affecting our collaboration, regardless of how painful this process may be. If it means examining racism in the LGBT community, so be it. Looking at homophobia in communities of color, sexism in a male-centered world, and other forms of oppression are equally as important to address. Failure to engage in such processes challenges our ability to develop the strategies needed to overcome our barriers, whatever they may be.
Interestingly, I have seen similar resistance by some communities in acknowledging the oppressions of other groups. We saw this with lesbian and bisexual women during the height of feminism, where straight white women did little to support the organizing efforts of queer women, and simultaneously, of women of color. Our own LGBT community, beyond the racism it has failed to address so far, has also been guilty of excluding bisexual and trans-identified people.
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Gilbert A. 03/21/2009 9:09:00 AM
Dear Jerry:
While I respect your fact-checking goal--journalism itself can be a harmful weapon if misused, manipulated, or abused--the point I attempted to convey earlier was that there seems to be an intentional unwillingness on the part of many readers to give any credence to the alleged incidence reported by Jamez, or to validate the feelings he may have had from these experiences. Why is that? Were you there on the night of the alleged incidents at either the 19 Bar or the other establishment?
Would we be so quick to interrogate and question the claims of an openly gay high school student who has reported harassment by his peers, which he attributes to his sexual orientation? I have a hard time believing that.
One of the things I welcomed about the manager at the 19 Bar was his effort to at least acknowledge the emotional impact the alleged incident (the details of which he disagrees with) may have had on Jamez. "Look, I apologize that he felt that way..." he stated.
Perhaps those who tend to deny the existence of racism in the LGBT community can make a similar effort at reconciliation.
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Jerry 03/21/2009 8:54:00 AM
It seems to me the only one here that can clearly be vilified is Bradley Campbell. Jamez�s mistreatment, either real or perceived, is valid. Perhaps he lacks the social skills to learn the reasons why he was spoken to, or treated the way he was. The same might have been said for the man who told him not to steal anything. We have no way of forming any opinion on him because Mr. Campbell decided to go ahead with the article without his point of view.
The only other person interviewed, Jason Defreitas, gave a valid and believable statement. If Jamez wanted to be served he should have stepped up to the bar and engaged the bartender. You may take Jamez�s side and believe he did just that, but if you�ve seen Jason at work I doubt you would. Whether he likes you or not, unless you�re causing problems, you would be served just like everyone else. If you were causing problems you wouldn�t need to make up your own mind to leave. After all, he has a responsibility to protect his establishment and his patrons.
The incident at the other, unnamed, bar is just another example of the one-sided nature of the article. Jamez went outside with a group of people, and when they went back in he was singled out. Maybe the bouncer didn�t see the group go out, if in fact they went out as a group. Maybe he recognized the other patrons and not him. Again we can�t know since the bouncer wasn�t interviewed either.
Does Mr. Campbell have something personal against the 19 Bar? I don�t know, but I have to ask. Why didn�t he mention the name of the other bar? Why didn�t he interview the other participants? I he couldn�t contact them why did he try to pass off one man�s opinion as news? To me it seems he�s either trying to single out the 19 Bar as a discriminating establishment, promote animosity between communities that are still in the process of building bridges.
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Devil's Advocate 03/21/2009 5:27:00 AM
My experience with racism at the 19:
1.
Black woman approaches another black woman:
"Thank God there's another one us, they don't like black people here..."
Reply from black patron: "Um, they have no problems whatsoever with black people here..."
2.
Black man walks (stumbles) in and slurs and order at the bartender, when he is denied he states:
"You're racist."
Bartender states:
"I'm sorry, don't call me that, and you've just had enough for today."
The man says:
"Okay, I'm sorry."
3.
There's a line out the door on a Friday night, a black man and a white woman, separately, bypass the line for faster service. When not served before the people who had been waiting for fifteen minutes the statements made are:
"Ugh, if I were a gay man (not a woman) I wouldn't be waiting."
and
"Apparently they don't serve black people here."
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Brandon Lacy Campos 03/21/2009 3:56:00 AM
To begin with Henry, it was actually 56% of black folks in CA that voted for Prop 8. And if you want to talk about why that is...we can talk about the two decades of organizing by white evangelicals in the black churches of California with no presence or organizing done by LGBT organizations in those same churches. But that is a separate discussion.
I grew up in Minneapolis. I love Minneapolis. I committed a decade of my life to working and organizing in the queer community in Minneapolis. I wrote for Lavender, I worked for MAP And the MN Men of Color, I co-chaired the Queer Student Cultural Center at the University of Minnesota, I sat on the Latin@ Advisory Council to the Mayor and City Council---I bring all of this up to say that I was deeply committed to the city and the community. Let me be clear, the LGBT community as a WHOLE is racist. This does not mean that everyone running around is racist. As a matter of fact, 95% of the folks I met, loved, played with and fucked were well meaning and well intentioned. But Minneapolis, to date, is the only place I have ever lived where I was told to my face: Oh I don't do DARK skin. The only place where when I walked into a queer owned store (Rainbow Road) I was eyeballed or straight up followed around the store.
Let me be clear. My friends work for the major bars in town. I can walk into any of them and get "vip" treatment. But it DOES not change the experience that I have had with the white queer community. I dont love them any less. But the truth is that being black and being queer in Minneapolis is not easy. There is little reflection and sometimes active rejection of us in the community. That is a truth. Jamez's experience may not be the only truth of the community--it isn't. But his experience is truth and writing it off or ignoring it or invalidating it serves only to strengthen his points.
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Brandon Lacy Campos 03/21/2009 3:55:00 AM
To begin with Henry, it was actually 56% of black folks in CA that voted for Prop 8. And if you want to talk about why that is...we can talk about the two decades of organizing by white evangelicals in the black churches of California with no presence or organizing done by LGBT organizations in those same churches. But that is a separate discussion.
I grew up in Minneapolis. I love Minneapolis. I committed a decade of my life to working and organizing in the queer community in Minneapolis. I wrote for Lavender, I worked for MAP And the MN Men of Color, I co-chaired the Queer Student Cultural Center at the University of Minnesota, I sat on the Latin@ Advisory Council to the Mayor and City Council---I bring all of this up to say that I was deeply committed to the city and the community. Let me be clear, the LGBT community as a WHOLE is racist. This does not mean that everyone running around is racist. As a matter of fact, 95% of the folks I met, loved, played with and fucked were well meaning and well intentioned. But Minneapolis, to date, is the only place I have ever lived where I was told to my face: Oh I don't do DARK skin. The only place where when I walked into a queer owned store (Rainbow Road) I was eyeballed or straight up followed around the store.
Let me be clear. My friends work for the major bars in town. I can walk into any of them and get "vip" treatment. But it DOES not change the experience that I have had with the white queer community. I dont love them any less. But the truth is that being black and being queer in Minneapolis is not easy. There is little reflection and sometimes active rejection of us in the community. That is a truth. Jamez's experience may not be the only truth of the community--it isn't. But his experience is truth and writing it off or ignoring it or invalidating it serves only to strengthen his points.
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Disappointed 03/21/2009 3:35:00 AM
Gilbert A:
While you bring up some great points, I can't help but feel that the bigger picture might be set aside in place of individual feelings. If we were to look at either the individual situation, or the communities, wouldn't a better conversation take place if we both assumed we were working in the same direction, that of embracing each other's differences. With this in mind, see #14 again.
I am not denying Jamez of any experience, real or perceived. I am sure more moments of the day than not, he experiences racism. The article's theme puts racism on a playing field with the straight and gay community as opposing teams. (not good for either community)
James is entitled to feel and express everything he needs/wants to express. The problem, objectively, that I see, lies in the blaming of categories of people. Therefore, the scenarios above were to outline the absurdity in saying anything like, "black people don't like gays" or vice versa.
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Gilbert A. 03/21/2009 3:17:00 AM
To the larger point that was (apparently) missed by several writers, Jamez was essentially addressing the racism in the gay community rather than merely highlighting a specific incident as described in the article.
Racism in the LGBT community is deniable only to those who subscribe to the Reaganesque dictum of a color blind America. One (of several) approaches taken by those who are apt to deny racism is to minimize or explain away the experiences of the mistreated.
For example:
-Jake wrote:
"The guy saying "Don't steal from me": Anytime you take a stranger home with you from the bar, that is a typical fear for every gay man. It is the same whether your trick is white, black, etc."
"The comments on gay.com: Those comments are tame compared to the bitchiness that goes on there on a regular bases and the jokes made at everyone's expense. Just look at gay.com and see the comments directed at fat guys."
"To blame the failure of your relationship on racism is just another example of the same blame game being played by Jamez. It is always easier to blame outside forces for our failures."
-Disappointed wrote:
"If I, as a gay man, were to enter Salsa a la Salsa, and receive some sort of �rude� service, should I make blanket statements that either the Minneapolis Mexican and/or Latino population doesn�t like gay men? Racism, homophobia, and heterosexism exists, but what are the connections?"
And, delving into hyperbole, he continues:
"Let�s say I attend a Superbowl party with middle-aged, white, straight men, from the suburbs, and I show up singing Cher, while sporting some glitter. Should they show any discomfort, or distaste for me, should I decide that all WHITE men are either heterosexist or homophobic?"
Embodied in these and similar comments made by people who are apt to deny racism, are doubts about the actual experiences, as well as the psychological impacts such incidents have on alleged victims. As I noted in a previous message, the presumption of knowledge about what someone else claims to feel is astounding.
Certainly, facts need to be scrutinized when someone is making serious claims, such as Jamez does here. But if someone says they felt mistreated--whether that mistreatment happened or not--why not accept those feelings and search for ways to address them?
Frankly, as a queer person of color myself, it offends me when people attribute "overreaction" or "misunderstanding" to my own and to others' felt-experiences with racism. I have come across slurs such as "nigger" and "wetback" by white people in the LGBT community in Minneapolis. The fact that overweight people are derided (as Jake pointed out in his response) does not validate the use of these or any other derogatory terms. Moreover, what right does anyone else have in telling me how I should feel when it comes to race and racism?
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Gilbert A. 03/21/2009 2:39:00 AM
Why is it that when someone says that they feel mistreated, others are apt to disagree with those personal feelings? The hubris involved in making such a claim confounds me. Those who were not there to witness what may or may not have occurred--and yet feel entitled to lodge their disagreements with James--are to be tolerated even less. Are we all empaths, now?
Rather than attacking this patron--the approach taken by several writers who have responded to this article--acknowledging his feelings and then explaining personal experiences there (those that may or may not parallel his claim) would be a more adaptive strategy to convey points.
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Randall 03/21/2009 1:30:00 AM
I agree with everything in this story. Not only that, but do green olives come in a see-through jar, but the black olive come in a can?
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Disappointed 03/21/2009 12:54:00 AM
Jamez Smith:
Of course, racism is still alive. To argue that any community is either racist or not racist is neither relevant, nor constructive. When did racism become a �gay� or �straight� issue? I will not deny that overt racism exists, nor the more subtle experiences that one cannot understand if they had not experienced it for themselves. That being said, to further these divisions, or �point the finger,� by putting oppression itself into a hierarchy is even less constructive.
Bradley Campbell:
This article is disappointing for a number of reasons. The lack of research should take away any potential merit. Also, the article is representing an individual�s experience with individual circumstances. What are the alleged connections between racism and the accused gay community? The claim that the gay community is any more or less racist than the straight community is intangible. Other black patrons of gay bars, and/or the 19, are not represented, nor are the accused interviewed (with the exception of Jason Defreitas, the bar manager of the 19). To used your journalistic voice in this way is extremely disappointing.
The 19 is arguably the most comfortable gay bar (MPLS) across race, sexuality, gender, and class:
The bar doesn�t cater to any one demographic. The space, one any given day, hosts men, women, transgender persons, ages 21 to 99, black, white, latino, asian, middle-eastern, gay, straight, bi, those with just enough change for only one beer, and those who could buy the bar twice over. Of course, no one is denying that Minneapolis/St. Paul holds any diversity Minnesota has, its still predominantly white, so it really is no surprise that the ratio of race in the gay community echoes the same.
Addressing the issues of the connections between the gay community and racism, I would like to pose a few questions. If I, as a gay man, were to enter Salsa a la Salsa, and receive some sort of �rude� service, should I make blanket statements that either the Minneapolis Mexican and/or Latino population doesn�t like gay men? Racism, homophobia, and heterosexism exists, but what are the connections? Let�s exhaust the stereotypes here: Let�s say I attend a Superbowl party with middle-aged, white, straight men, from the suburbs, and I show up singing Cher, while sporting some glitter. Should they show any discomfort, or distaste for me, should I decide that all WHITE men are either heterosexist or homophobic? What should I choose? Should I blame it on their location in the suburbs? Or the fact that they�re straight? Or perhaps their age? In any of these cases, to say that the gay or straight community hosts more or less racism than the other is irrelevant and arguably ignorant.
We do need a vision in any community that does not include racism. This does not mean ignoring racism, but addressing it. That being said, this article reinforces racism, and creates wars between the oppressed.
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Disappointed 03/21/2009 12:54:00 AM
Jamez Smith:
Of course, racism is still alive. To argue that any community is either racist or not racist is neither relevant, nor constructive. When did racism become a �gay� or �straight� issue? I will not deny that overt racism exists, nor the more subtle experiences that one cannot understand if they had not experienced it for themselves. That being said, to further these divisions, or �point the finger,� by putting oppression itself into a hierarchy is even less constructive.
Bradley Campbell:
This article is disappointing for a number of reasons. The lack of research should take away any potential merit. Also, the article is representing an individual�s experience with individual circumstances. What are the alleged connections between racism and the accused gay community? The claim that the gay community is any more or less racist than the straight community is intangible. Other black patrons of gay bars, and/or the 19, are not represented, nor are the accused interviewed (with the exception of Jason Defreitas, the bar manager of the 19). To used your journalistic voice in this way is extremely disappointing.
The 19 is arguably the most comfortable gay bar (MPLS) across race, sexuality, gender, and class:
The bar doesn�t cater to any one demographic. The space, one any given day, hosts men, women, transgender persons, ages 21 to 99, black, white, latino, asian, middle-eastern, gay, straight, bi, those with just enough change for only one beer, and those who could buy the bar twice over. Of course, no one is denying that Minneapolis/St. Paul holds any diversity Minnesota has, its still predominantly white, so it really is no surprise that the ratio of race in the gay community echoes the same.
Addressing the issues of the connections between the gay community and racism, I would like to pose a few questions. If I, as a gay man, were to enter Salsa a la Salsa, and receive some sort of �rude� service, should I make blanket statements that either the Minneapolis Mexican and/or Latino population doesn�t like gay men? Racism, homophobia, and heterosexism exists, but what are the connections? Let�s exhaust the stereotypes here: Let�s say I attend a Superbowl party with middle-aged, white, straight men, from the suburbs, and I show up singing Cher, while sporting some glitter. Should they show any discomfort, or distaste for me, should I decide that all WHITE men are either heterosexist or homophobic? What should I choose? Should I blame it on their location in the suburbs? Or the fact that they�re straight? Or perhaps their age? In any of these cases, to say that the gay or straight community hosts more or less racism than the other is irrelevant and arguably ignorant.
We do need a vision in any community that does not include racism. This does not mean ignoring racism, but addressing it. That being said, this article reinforces racism, and creates wars between the oppressed.
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David Pulliam 03/20/2009 5:46:00 AM
After reading that comment the article I was offended. I'm a gay black male that knows all the staff at that bar, have been hired to work there over pride weekend and will most likely again this year and know for a fact that the bartenders and staff there are not racist. It's funny that the person in the article had the same "problem" that he did not only in one large city (especially one as liberal as San Fran), but in Minneapolis at a local gay bar that serves to anyone that meets normal legal requirements. If you take a walk around the neighborhood that The 19 is in, it would have had to close its doors a long time ago if it had racist employees. The 19 is also the oldest gay bar in Minneapolis and it has survived this long so they must be doing something right. I know people that are black that have been regulars there for longer then I have been able to drink; why doesn't he tell them his story and see what reaction they have. As a black man I know The 19's bartenders and staff are as liberal as they come. If you would like a gay bar that has problems with rude staff, try The Gay 90's....
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David Pulliam 03/20/2009 5:46:00 AM
After reading that comment the article I was offended. I'm a gay black male that knows all the staff at that bar, have been hired to work there over pride weekend and will most likely again this year and know for a fact that the bartenders and staff there are not racist. It's funny that the person in the article had the same "problem" that he did not only in one large city (especially one as liberal as San Fran), but in Minneapolis at a local gay bar that serves to anyone that meets normal legal requirements. If you take a walk around the neighborhood that The 19 is in, it would have had to close its doors a long time ago if it had racist employees. The 19 is also the oldest gay bar in Minneapolis and it has survived this long so they must be doing something right. I know people that are black that have been regulars there for longer then I have been able to drink; why doesn't he tell them his story and see what reaction they have. As a black man I know The 19's bartenders and staff are as liberal as they come. If you would like a gay bar that has problems with rude staff, try The Gay 90's....
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Henry 03/20/2009 4:15:00 AM
....Smith has a hard time understanding how any gay man can be racist. "They know what oppression feels like. How could they turn around and be this way?
Hmmm... here is a question:
How can 70% of the black voters in California support a Constitutional amendment to take away right for gay people? To quote Mr. Smith: "They know what oppression feels like. How could they turn around and be this way?
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Jake 03/20/2009 3:32:00 AM
OOPS!!
Correction to my above post...
I meant to say that I find that elitism occurs LESS (not more) in Minnesota than other places I've lived.
In fact, it is one of the reasons I moved here.
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Jake 03/20/2009 3:29:00 AM
To Jonathan from Duluth:
Jonathan...are you telling me that Duluth is more "diverse" than the Twin Cities?
Sounds to me that your problem is more with people with "money and college degrees". Elitism occurs everywhere, in fact, it is much more prevalent in Minnesota than any other place I've lived in my life. Yet, at the end of the day, if you feel inferior because you do not have a college degree or lots of money, that's your own issue to deal with. Personally, my worth as a person is not determined by my race, net worth, education or any other external metric.
To blame the failure of your relationship on racism is just another example of the same blame game being played by Jamez. It is always easier to blame outside forces for our failures.
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Jake 03/20/2009 3:20:00 AM
First of all, it's pathetic that City Pages has published this as "news".
This is ONE person's accusation against a bartender, a bar, a community indeed a whole city. Did the "journalist" look for any corroboration before defaming an entire community? Are there any other individuals that have been discriminated in a like manner?
City Pages should be ashamed.
Second, it is idiotic for anyone to think that personal bias of every kind is now or will ever be eliminated. There will always be people who don't like you for some reason (valid or not) and if you can't deal with that in life, you will be miserable throughout. We will never be able to legislate thought.
Let's see...
1. The guy saying "Don't steal from me": Anytime you take a stranger home with you from the bar, that is a typical fear for every gay man. It is the same whether your trick is white, black, etc. I went home with a white guy from St. Cloud a few years ago and he stole $120 from my wallet while I slept. Jamez ASSUMED his friend meant it because of his race.
2. The comments on gay.com: Those comments are tame compared to the bitchiness that goes on there on a regular bases and the jokes made at everyone's expense. Just look at gay.com and see the comments directed at fat guys.
3. Bad service at the 19: Half the time when it's slow at the 19, the bartender is sitting on a stool talking to friends. I have come in many times, sat at the bar and not been noticed until I call the bartender.
4. Being asked for ID when entering the bar: Last I heard, it is Minnesota law that everyone entering a bar has a valid state ID. It is the bar's responsibility to check ID for everyone entering regardless of age.
The fact that this guy felt discriminated against in San Francisco, which is undoubtedly the most liberal and open minded city in America (if not the world) tells me that he is simply using his race and perceived societal discrimination as an excuse for not achieving the things he wants out of life.
If he's looking for a place where bias does not exist; he will never find it. Even in countries where the vast majority are black, there is still bias based on tribe, language, religion, etc.
On a personal note, I have encountered this gentleman at bars a few times and let's just say that his interaction with staff and other patrons is less than friendly. He is arrogant and rude. Maybe the reason is that people just don't like him.
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Henryz 03/19/2009 11:31:00 PM
Did Jamez ever consider that the discrimination was based on the fact that his name sucks? It looks like a tag a 16-year-old boy (real name James) would put on MySpace to impress girls who overdo it with their eye makeup.
Seriously, Jamez should consider the plus side of being a double minority (gay and black), which actually offsets the discrimination he gets from the lame single minorities. Colleges would flock like the Peoples Temple to let this guy in. If he ever wanted to work on the Corporate Board of a Fortune 500 company, he would have no problem getting a seat. Fuck, if he was blind in one eye he could probably probably be a mouthpiece for the Democratic party.
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JoeyDox 03/19/2009 10:53:00 PM
Dont get me wrong, i know there is still racism and sexism out in the wrold there. But personally, to me, this seems more like a man who is havin a hard time, maybe financially, in these economic times. Looking for a little break. The easy way. now does that make me racist? cause i am not. but i said this about a black man. crazy thing. i'd say it whether he was white, black, purple, or green.
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Greg 03/19/2009 3:17:00 PM
I'm an old regular at the 19 and while it's been a couple years since I've lived near enough to the bar to drop in I know it pretty well. The clientel of the 19 is diverse and people who go there like it that way. I doubt any discrimination complaints about the 19 have merit. Considering the diversity of the 19's customer base it just wouldn't make good business sense. The 19 is a business after all. Oh, and by the way, although I happen to be white; every now and then I'm not served as fast as I want to be or in the order I think I should be. Sometimes these "unfair kind of things happen to us all. Once I was even carded and I'm fifty five years old! So far I haven't attributed that to discrimination and neither should anyone else.
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sean27 03/19/2009 8:43:00 AM
Are the "Pages" feeling the difficult economic times? I know everybody needs more readers... This reads ridiculous!������ ������� It sounds to me that this gent has had issues every where he lived or visited. I have been going to the "19" for many years. From what I have experienced at the neiborhood hot spot, the "19" seems like it is one of the safest places for us to hang out.� They look like they treat EVERYONE like family. The staff at the 19 Bar has always been very nice and courtious to me and ALL my friends. Trust me when I say we are few of the many in the "Diverse Clientele" bracket that frequent the local bar.� ����� ���������� Sincerly, ������������������ Your local gay bar patron.������������
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sean27 03/19/2009 8:41:00 AM
Are the "Pages" feeling the difficult economic times? I know everybody needs more readers... This reads ridiculous!������ ������� It sounds to me that this gent has had issues every where he lived or visited. I have been going to the "19" for many years. From what I have experienced at the neiborhood hot spot, the "19" seems like it is one of the safest places for us to hang out.� They look like they treat EVERYONE like family. The staff at the 19 Bar has always been very nice and courtious to me and ALL my friends. Trust me when I say we are few of the many in the "Diverse Clientele" bracket that frequent the local bar.� ����� ���������� Sincerly, ������������������ Your local gay bar patron.������������
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Jonathan Lund 03/19/2009 12:31:00 AM
Jamez, I lived in Minneapolis for nearly a decade with my boyfriend (who is black) and I have to echo your statement. I did not like being there either; ultimately I think the general attitude is what caused us to grow apart. Not only did we seem to be one of the only interracial gay couples (both seeking something long term rather than the typical 'try it out' sexual experience, I left Minneapolis very angry). I now live in Duluth, which over the past decade has become much more diverse and one thing I realized about being gay in Minneapolis that was causing even more trouble in the gay world: unless you are affluent, have all these college degrees and a great job and expensive clothes - you're a nobody regardless of race. Most of these men live their entire lives based on image and illusion rather than truth - appearing to be rich and moving up in the gay social scene is more important than anything. Since hardly anyone comes to Duluth to get rich, that whole toxic attitude that just rots your self esteem is a nonissue. You get to be you! When we were in Minneapolis we felt many of the things you mentioned and it sucked - you'd think that being around such a large gay community would yield some sense of support but I never saw it.
Just wanted to commiserate with you! Drop me a note if you like.
On your side,
Jonathan from Duluth
jonathanlund@me.com